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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7924
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
For Project Nova to be successful it will have to have a much better New Player Experiance (NPE) to achive better new player retention than DUST did. It would also be a lot more successful if it catered to both COD vets and EVE vets. I think the key to both of these challenges is player controlled complexity.
1)Change GÇ£Starter fitsGÇ¥ to GÇ£Standard FitsGÇ¥.
-Have Standard Fits available at all strength levels that are widely purchasable on the market. (Militia through Proto, but not Officer in the DUST system). Standard Fit dropsuit costs should be proportional to item level. If the player has insufficient funds, up to 30 units of the lowest level Standard Fit (Militia) can be purchased with whatever funds you have left in your wallet.
-Have those fits already in the playerGÇÖs list of fits, but red if the player does not yet have the skills to use them. Retain the ability to remove Standard Fits from your list of active fits, or copy and edit.
-Have only 5 Standard fits (not counting the item level versions of each of the 5). The Standard fits available to a player should be based on their CharacterGÇÖs race (Using that raceGÇÖs gear, except where a faction does not make appropriate gear for a role, so an Amarr Standard Fit might use a Caldari Sniper Rifle.)
-Make sure that the Standard Fits are competitive with Custom fits at the same item level and used by players of the same skill level.
-At any time a player can create new fits or copy and edit existing fits.
- A dropsuit fit (all items included in the fit) can be purchased from the fitting window (provided all items are available on the market). This allows a player to restock without learning how to use the market.
2)Include Default Training Plans.
-Have a starter training plan running when a player first logs in. When that gets close to running out, prompt the player to choose from a list of pre-set Training Plans, or to create a custom Training Plan.
-Have the pre-set Training Plans each based on one of the 5 Standard Fits. The Training Plan will unlock the upper tiers of that Standard Fit and insure the player has the skills to use it effectively.
-At any time you can access your Training Plan and edit it to make a custom Training Plan. The pre-set Training Plans simply populate your Training Plan automatically with a pre-defined skill training order.
With this system a COD vet can develop a character that is competitive on the battlefield without having to learn the Fitting system or the Skill Training system. The drawback of keeping it simple is that you only have a narrow choice in what role you play, but within those roles you will be competitive.
At the same time an EVE Online vet can start customizing their Training Plan and making custom fits on day 1. We donGÇÖt lose the complexity and depth of the game by offering some a simple path.
And when that COD vet decides that he/she would really like to try out a Mass Driver or use another raceGÇÖs dropsuit, then they will have the motivation to learn the fitting system, skill training system, and market. They can learn these things when they are ready, rather than being overwhelmed by them on the first day.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7937
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Posted - 2016.10.12 12:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:My recommendation is to make it so that starter fits are free regardless. Eve Online already has something similar to this with free rookie ships that you can just get by simply undocking from a station in a pod, going to another station that doesn't have any ship in it in the hangar and then VIOLA! Instant free Ibis pre-fitted with a civilian turret that never needs ammo, civilian mining laser, and a single unit of Tritanium in the cargo hold. This is so that anytime a player is really down on their luck in Eve Online they can always fall back to this ship to start over.
Or they can just use that ship to create a fleet of a thousand Ibis' with an entire alliance for ***** and giggles. Note: Some players in Eve Online actually did pull this off long ago.
You make a good point.
I also think that new players should be fighting other new players until they get far enough in their training plan to unlock a next tier suit above Militia.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7938
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Posted - 2016.10.12 12:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:The issue I had with the Dust pre fit suits was that they stuck to only using Race specific weaponry, pretty as it is, the scrambler pistol does not suit a Scrambler Rifle fit, part of learning the fitting system is what gear complements each other.
This gave me an idea. What if you could buy Fits on the market? Each pre-made fit would come with a pre-made training plan. A player could buy the fit and it would be added to their list of fits. If it shows up red, then the player can open their training plans and select the pre-made training plan that has the same name as the fit they want to use. Once the fit is usable the training plan can default back to the one that was running previously.
Then allow players (power players such as EVE vets) to create pre-made fits and sell them on the open market. Have training plans automatically generated to fulfill the prerequisites for the fit.
Also allow players to create and sell training plans.
The reason I separate player created fits and player created training plans is so players don't troll the market by selling a good fit with a completely superfluous training plan. A player can sell a training plan designed to support one of their custom fits, including supporting skills along with the prerequisites, but I think it is important for the purchaser to make the decision to purchase that training plan separate from the decision to buy the fit.
An advanced player with a following could make a good in game living just coming up with cool fits and selling them. And it would allow a player who does not want to learn the training system a simple way of getting the type of suit they want to play.
Training Plans:
A training plan is a list of the skills to train and the order in which to train them. If you already have a skill that is on the list, the training plan skips to the next skill on the list.
Players start with a generic training plan. While still in the Academe they will be prompted to select a Role based training plan which will support one of the 5 Standard suits. This plan is a very long one that includes support skills as well as the prerequisites for the suits, weapons, and equipment for that Role.
There would then be short training plans, such as the auto generated training plan that comes with a purchased fit, or a custom training plan purchased from another player. When these short training plans run out, the player defaults back to their Role training plan.
The Role based training plans should be good, but conservative, ensuring that the player gets the supporting skills to be effective before unlocking the more expensive suits. They may not have the skill training in the most efficient order for how a player wants to play, but if a player wants to take another training path they can purchase a Training Plan more to their liking, or learn to create their own Training Plan.
I think this process just formalizes and monetizes something which already happens. The number crunchers on the Forums figure out the best fits and most efficient training plans and others copy them. (I certainly created a lot of both fits and training plans in the Guides I wrote.) This system makes it easier for the players who don't want to crunch the numbers and gives the number crunchers a chance to make some in game currency off their work.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7938
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Posted - 2016.10.12 13:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:The biggest NPE element that needs to be in place is, this is not a standard shooter, the gun you use and the type of suit you are firing at make a massive difference.
Explain Shield, Armour, and ammo types as part of the very first thing you do!
Even if they have to use pokemon "it's super effective" when you're in the academy to get the message across, it needs to be done!
I think there should be a Firing Rang where you can try any weapon without having to buy it, make a fit for it, or meet the prerequisites for it.
I think the firing range should have targets matching small, medium, and heavy sizes, and in Armour and Shield configurations. The Size and Armor/Shield characteristics should be clearly indicated on the targets, so you get a clear idea of how fast it takes to kill each with the weapon you are testing.
This would be an intuitive way to learn the effectiveness of a weapon. You notice more when the targets are not shooting back.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7944
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Posted - 2016.10.14 12:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:As far as I recall from the FanFest interview with Rattati, the idea is that players of Project Nova start out as a "neutral 5th faction" with no access to "racial" gear whatsoever. In that regard it seems likely we'd be starting out as employees of Arkombine as part of Upwell Consortium, and notice that the two suits in the Project Nova logo don't really look to be of any specific race. They remind me of the design themes the Art Team came up with for the Upwell structures currently being put into EVE.
That works even better. The starting Generic Training Plan can support the Starting Generic Suits, then when they get prompted to select a role they can select which faction's suit they want to skill into, and be assigned a training plan accordingly.
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I understand where you're coming from with your concept, but I still think the better answer is to TEACH complexity rather than try and find ways to remove or hide it for new players. CCP is planning to introduce an entirely rebuilt NPE for EVE Online, but notice how they still aren't going to try and lock you into fitting restrictions even on Alpha Clones. Regardless of whether you start with a subscription or for free, you'll still have the freedom to customize your ship modules, and I think Project Nova should allow the same.
Fun complexity is complexity which gives you more control. Annoying complexity is when you have to figure out something complicated that has consequences before you can do what you want to do.
My system allows you to customize your training plan or fit from day one, but also gives you the option of waiting till day 23 or day 56 to learn how to customize these things without suffering any serious consequences for not getting to it earlier.
What we don't want is for the fitting and skill training systems to be dumbed down with complexity removed to make them easier to learn. My proposal does not remove any complexity from these systems. It just provides an overlay which allows players a simplified set of per-defined options which will let them get into battle quickly without having to spend hours studying first. This will hook them on the game, and then they will be inspired to learn these complex systems in order to build the custom fits they are seeing on the battlefield. The hope is that by the time they want to learn the system, they will have friends to walk them through it, or have found the forum to get help. That is a big improvement over players getting frustrated with the system and leaving to find a new game.
Of course the more technically oriented will get into customizing much earlier. It will be there when people are ready for it, be that day 1, day 23, or day 56. Maybe some will always rely on others players to plan their training plans and fits, but once you get past CCP's pre-made training plans and start using player created training plans, then it becomes part of the META Game.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7955
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Posted - 2016.10.17 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I'll just say what most people realized already, the SP progression system in Dust is an inferior system- in the sense that as time goes on new players will find it increasingly difficult to compete against veterans and therefore they will be less likely to actually stay with the game for any noticeable amount of time. It's a self defeating economic system. It's crap and if Project Nova has this same system then they have learned nothing and it will fail slowly just like Dust.
From the perspective of a traditional FPS where everyone has equal equipment, it does seem to be unfair to new players, but from an MMO perspective it seems superior as a day 1 newb can kill a 1 year vet. Yes the Vet has quite an advantage, but in other MMO's a level 1 character would have no chance against a level capped character.
Also the gap between new players and vets does not continue to expand indefinitely. In DUST you could max out a role with 20 to 25 million skill points, where you could never get any better at that particular role. After that additional skill points only allowed you to diversify, but would not make you better in a single encounter. The gap would also close very quickly at first, so that a character with 10 to 12 million skill points would only be at a very minor disadvantage against a Vet.
Now if the academy went a bit longer, and new players had access to better gear before they started to face vets, they could get the feel of progression without having to face quite as large a gap when they hit PUB matches and started to face Vets.
I am also hoping that they stick with tierriside in Nova so there is only one level of suit and the strength is determined by the level of Power Supply and Processor you install in it. Then new players will not feel quite so out classed as this did in DUST warring Militia suits against Proto suits.
Ultimately this system allows characters to continue to progress for years and years without gaining an insurmountable advantage over new players.
It would work better though if there was a PVE component which would allow players to get to 20 million skill points without having to face Vets in battle if they chose not to.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7955
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Posted - 2016.10.17 16:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Why assign a cap to it? Honestly I think players should be able to gain SP however they like same as you can in EVE via the passive system. For an FPS like Nova that translates into allowing SP gain in PvE and PvP. You'd obviously get more per kill in PvP, but the number of enemies to take on in PvE would make up for it.
If we really want Nova to someday be a legitimate MMOFPS, a player should theoretically be able to play the game for years without EVER engaging in PvP. It's about giving people the choice to play however they want. In all reality the likelihood that we'd get anything like the dedicated high-sec mission runners in EVE is pretty damn low.
I never suggested a Cap, nor did I mean to imply a Cap. Did you think I was suggesting a Cap on Skill Points, or did you think I meant for PVE to end at 20 million skill points? I can tell that there was a misunderstanding, but I am not sure which part of my post you were responding to.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7955
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Posted - 2016.10.17 16:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
If they implement Scavenging Grounds (as suggested for Project Legion), then the High Sec Scavenging Grounds should have Friend or Foe systems* activated so that you can't attack another player, so they would be PVE only environments.
Low Sec Scavenging Grounds should allow friendly fire so they involve both PVE and PVP.
Then, like in EVE, new players can stay in High Sec to be safe while they develop, or go to Low sec for more risk and higher rewards. (I am one of those pilots that moved to Low Sec in my first week playing EVE.) Choice is good.
*Friend or Foe systems from a Lore perspective, are software in the firing computer for your suit which will prevent your weapons from activating when targeting something the computer has identified as Friendly. Concord requires all Dropsuits used in High Sec to run this software in compliance with the roles of war in High Security Space.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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